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Subject: "Games Finite and Infinite" Previous topic | Next topic
TobyTue Apr-12-05 08:26 AM
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#117, "Games Finite and Infinite"


          

The only purpose of an infinite game is to prevent it from coming to an end--to keep all the players playing. How do we find new players and/or how do they find us?

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, Apr 12th 2005, #1
RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, Apr 12th 2005, #2
      RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, Apr 14th 2005, #3
      RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, Apr 15th 2005, #4
           RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, Apr 15th 2005, #5
                RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, Apr 15th 2005, #6
                     RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, Apr 15th 2005, #7
                          RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, Apr 18th 2005, #8
                               RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, Apr 18th 2005, #9
                                    RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, Apr 18th 2005, #10
                                         RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, Apr 18th 2005, #11
                                              RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, May 01st 2005, #12
                                                   RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, May 02nd 2005, #13
                                                        RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, May 02nd 2005, #14
                                                             RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, May 04th 2005, #15
                                                                  RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, May 17th 2005, #16
                                                                       RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, May 18th 2005, #17
                                                                            RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, May 20th 2005, #18
                                                                                 RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, May 25th 2005, #19
                                                                                      RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, May 27th 2005, #20
                                                                                      RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, Jun 01st 2005, #21
      RE: Games Finite and Infinite, jgillam, Jun 23rd 2005, #22
           RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, Jul 01st 2005, #23
                RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Sheila, Jul 09th 2005, #24
                     RE: Games Finite and Infinite, Toby, Jul 09th 2005, #25
RE: Games Finite and Infinite, patrickj, Jul 12th 2005, #26

SheilaTue Apr-12-05 10:16 AM
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#118, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Toby, must a game have a purpose?

S Redd

  

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TobyTue Apr-12-05 03:05 PM
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#119, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Sheila

Maybe we have to define what we mean by game. Or can we say all games have a purpose and that is to play? The infinite variety seems up for the joy of playing-- doesn't care much for winning or losing. If you're an infinite player, you can't be obsessed with death. It shows up as a surprise. Might that end the play? The infinite player dies in the course of play--an unscripted surprise and an inspiration for others, maybe. If so, even in death the infinite player helps the play continue.

If you're not playing, what else might you do?

  

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TobyThu Apr-14-05 03:40 PM
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#120, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 2


          

And what is to become of us
when our playmates vanish?

  

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SheilaFri Apr-15-05 12:07 AM
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#121, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 3


          

When our playmates vanish we are left with a sad surprise because, you're right, they are dead. But the game goes on with new playmates. I like the idea of the inspiration of not dwelling on death. Morbidity certainly isn't part of my playfulness. We can only hope for ourselves and our loved ones that death visits us unannounced. It certainly puts a crimp in playfulness. Frankly, I'm against it.

S Redd

  

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TobyFri Apr-15-05 05:51 AM
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#122, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 4


          

I agree with what was so implicit, tho not stated, in your note-- an infinite player needs a far out (or close in?) sense of humor. A playmate of mine, when we were working on a film script, dubbed me the happy idiot. I took that as a great compliment. Do you think infinite players recognize one another right away?

  

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SheilaFri Apr-15-05 07:57 AM
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#123, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Yes, instant recognition. Don't you think? A sense of simpatico, a twinkle, readily seen.

S Redd

  

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TobyFri Apr-15-05 10:45 AM
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#124, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 6


          

This matter of "recognition" is getting some play these days. Is there an instant recogntion (intuitive knowing) via a small bit of information, or is it instant because of life experiences that allow for a quick reading of a person or situation? . . . Is the twinkle you refer to have to do with some mind-altering
history?

  

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SheilaMon Apr-18-05 09:02 AM
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#125, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 7


          

I think twinkle is the wrong word. Sounds like a leprechaun. Not that I'm anti-Irish, of course. I think spark is a better word. And spark goes along with recognition. So, yes, I think it's an intuitive knowing combined with our experience based on our intelligence. Does that make any sense, Toby? Of course, this would mean that really, really stupid people couldn't be playmates. Is that prejudiced? Do let me know your thoughts on this gleeful topic.

S Redd

  

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TobyMon Apr-18-05 11:46 AM
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#126, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Sheila,

You make perfect sense--some combo of intuition and experience, different combinations for different peope maybe.
I agree that you cannot have a really stupid person as a playmate. That narrows the field down considerably. But what do we mean by stupid?

Toby

  

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SheilaMon Apr-18-05 12:11 PM
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#127, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Toby, Toby, always with the questions. In my world a stupid person has no sense of humor within him (or her)self and no ability to understand it from another. They don't get it. This is a serious lack. Also, they tend not to be brainiacs. "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." Stupid is not a very nice word but sometimes we must acknowledge the ugliness in our world. After all, Bush is president. That's some kind of stupid, don't you think?

S Redd

  

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TobyMon Apr-18-05 12:56 PM
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#128, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 10


          

Sheila--

Before dealing with stupid, I want to say that when you came up with spark in you last note, I thought that was the right word. In Jewish mystical thought, perhaps the key symbol is the spark--of the divine which lives in each of us; our life work is to let it light us up, remember it, etc.

By me, stupid is about ignorance-- not knowing or recognizing one's self or others in a way that acknowledges our essential humanity; not only not knowing, but not wanting to know; stuck in the world of the known. Stuck forever in being afraid; terrified of freedom-- and yes, sorely lacking a sense of humor. Stuck in some sort of moralistic world view.

No wonder we feel lucky oor blessed when we find a playmate.

  

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SheilaSun May-01-05 03:24 PM
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#129, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Hi, Toby,
Do you think the divine lives in me? I wonder. I'm such a skeptic I don't know if it's possible. Perhaps you could define divine for me.
Doubting Sheila

S Redd

  

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TobyMon May-02-05 04:38 AM
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#130, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 12


          

Dear Doubting Sheila,

Good hearing from you again. Would it help to say that all that is, is a manifestion of a mystery we might call divine? Not so much where it "lives," not this metaphor-- simply (?) the whatisness of things? Or am I making for confusion? What images come up for you when you thiink of a notion like the divine? . . . So far in NYC, a beautiful spring.

  

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SheilaMon May-02-05 07:13 AM
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#131, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 13


          

Dear Toby,
When I was younger and much more eager to accept whatever I was told I thought of the divine as god sitting up in heaven looking down upon us all, a divine Santa Claus without gifts checking to see if we were naughty or nice. Now, when I make myself think of the divine I think more of an other-worldliness. The image that speaks to me is the ocean when I am about 60 feet below sea level. It is there that I feel the magnificence of this world. I am always carried away by the strange beauty and the utter silence of that watery world. And to know that this is a part of my planet fills me with reverence and awe and a deep gratitude that I have been privy to a bit of its wholeness.
Sort of spiritually yours,
Sheila

S Redd

  

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TobyWed May-04-05 12:58 PM
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#132, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 14


          

I have found it useful (that is, it helps me imagine) to think of spirituality as the study of mind-- me and some Buddhists.

Beautiful water description. By the way, you were also part of that scene; you are it also. What say?

  

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SheilaTue May-17-05 03:28 PM
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#133, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 15


          

Yes, I was a part of that watery scene. And, strangely enough, I did not feel the least bit foreign in that deep, silent world. And I can imagine you sitting in a circle with some friendly Buddhists, all saffron-robed but you'd be the first one to crack a smile. I know it.

S Redd

  

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TobyWed May-18-05 07:31 AM
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#134, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Probably-- just as I would enroll in the Crazy Wisdom school. Or maybe the school for happy idiots. And you?

  

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SheilaFri May-20-05 11:58 AM
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#135, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 17


          

I would like to apply to the school for happy idiots. If my application was denied I'd be forlorn but still idiotic. Perhaps the school for happy idiots would never deny me so I have nothing to worry about, except, of course, the unparalleled tragedy of Saddam in his underwear. Irreverently yours, Sheila

S Redd

  

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TobyWed May-25-05 11:51 AM
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#136, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 18


          

"Forlorn but still Idiotic"-- so funny; sounds like a counry and western, I'm forlorn but still idiotic over you.

Maybe we've reached a logical end to game theory, both being students of the crazy wisdom school. Next?

  

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SheilaFri May-27-05 01:11 PM
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#137, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 19


          

Is there logic in crazy wisdom?
Imagine, or should I say, hear, a twangin' gee-tar, a plaintive melody and the words, "My baby done left me I feel so forlorn, but I'm an idiot and don't have to mourn." It brings a tear to your eye, don't it?

S Redd

  

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TobyWed Jun-01-05 08:47 AM
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#138, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 20


          

Logic-- the reality of death, not as abstraction but as felt personal destiny?
Story: famous Chinese Taoist philosopher, Chuan Tsu, is dancing and singing and drinking and carrying on mightily.--even tho his wife has just died. His Confucian neighbors are appalled and come to humble him and remind him of grieving rituals. Bah, he says, you know nothing about death.

  

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jgillamThu Jun-23-05 09:55 AM
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#139, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 2


          

>Sheila
>
>Maybe we have to define what we mean by game. Or can we say
>all games have a purpose and that is to play? The infinite
>variety seems up for the joy of playing-- doesn't care much
>for winning or losing. If you're an infinite player, you
>can't be obsessed with death. It shows up as a surprise.
>Might that end the play? The infinite player dies in the
>course of play--an unscripted surprise and an inspiration for
>others, maybe. If so, even in death the infinite player helps
>the play continue.
>
>If you're not playing, what else might you do?

How can we not be playing? on another point, in 100 years, all new players.

june gillam


  

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TobyFri Jul-01-05 03:44 PM
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#140, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 22


          

If you're not playing, you are dead in fundamental ways. How do you wake out of this condition? What metaphor might you use?

  

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SheilaSat Jul-09-05 07:16 AM
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#141, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 23


          

Toby,there is, of course, the Phoenix rising from the ashes. But I like the grimmer Snow White sleeping the sleep of death in her glass coffin and having the poisoned chunk of apple jostled out of her throat allowing her to breathe and speak once more. What's your metaphor of the day? Inquiring minds...
Sheila

S Redd

  

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TobySat Jul-09-05 03:41 PM
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#142, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 24


          

What a good idea--the metaphor of the day. I liked your example-- a silence from which speech is born.

  

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patrickjTue Jul-12-05 03:52 AM
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#143, "RE: Games Finite and Infinite"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Jul-12-05 03:53 AMby patrickj

          

>The only purpose of an infinite game is to prevent it from
>coming to an end--to keep all the players playing. How do we
>find new players and/or how do they find us?


>Maybe we have to define what we mean by game


Is PW an infinite game? If so, it is hard to keep this game going alone.

Joan

  

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